Don't use it for a bodybuilding purpose such as cutting. It's a great compound and does a good job of doing what it is meant to do for us. You have to be very, very lean to notice anything physically. Even cutting, most guys use it the last 6-8 weeks of a prep to put the "finishing touches" to what they've already done. It gives an already lean and ripped person a 3D type of look that you want on stage. It's also really good for increasing sex drive. That's a major plus. It's just too expensive to use it for a purpose that tren would do 9000x better for less than half the cost.