Progressive Cycles
- Thread starter DOUBLE J
- Start date
learner202
Banana
I have thought about this before too, but I am not really sure how receptor sites respond.
learner202
Banana
bump
LA
New member
1st, I'm not a "receptor" guy. If receptors down graded to any significant degree we would see HRT doses going up the longer someone was on- haven't seen it (or if you have please send info to my doctor).
Having said that, I think you need to look at why you make the best gains during the 1st 4-6 weeks of a cycle. There are many factors I don't think you are considering.
1. Distance from your genetic potential. This may not be the best name for this but like it is easier to loose the 1st 15 lbs on a diet rather than the last 5, it is also true that it's harder to gain 5 more lbs after putting on 15.
2. The body's ability to adapt to food intake. Now here I think you'll find the main culprit. There are several examples I could give but let's take the most extreme- the BBer who just finished a contest. He's at a very low calorie intake and he's been there for weeks. He's fighting tooth and nail to get that last couple of lbs off. Now he's done. Here comes the food. Can we say anabolic environment? Also the leap in calories just can't be duplicated. Some people end up 1500 calories or less when finishing up their contest diet. Now if you want to bulk immediately following you can triple your calories intake fairly easily. Even the regular Joe who was eating away at 3400 maintenance can add 1200 calories no problem. But how many bulking diets have you seen start at 4600 and end up at 9200 calories?
3. How many bulkers do you see end up as cutters? This, IMO is flawed design but it's considered standard practice to use AS that "harden you up" at the end. Although there maybe nothing exactly wrong with the AS choices, what does this do to your mindset? It tells you it's ok not to put on any/much more weight.
4. Let's face it, the gains at the beginning are water! Muscle weighs as much as fat (but takes up 1/2 the space) so a lb of muscle (correct me if I'm wrong) takes 3500 calories to make. That's above maintenance levels. Do the math. It's hard to put on more than 2-3 lbs of muscle in a week. But we gain a lot more weight than that. Again H2O.
5. The body raises metabolism to account for the additional calories. Just as you diet, your body fights you to keep weight at a certain point when bulking the body will get used to the additional calories and eventually figure away to burn them off. A fat person for example (follow them around it's really true) can eat an amazing amount of calories and not gain a lb. Why, because their body's are used to the calorie intake. Sure they become fatter but the change has to be measured in months. Someone in the 270 range may get to 275 but it may take a year (over 5000 calories a day) to do so.
6. These same rules apply to naturals also. It's just that naturals have to watch the extremes much more closely, but they make there best gains during the 1st 4-6 weeks also.
So I say it's food, not gear. I would like to hear other opinions on this.
BTW: I loved this question!
Having said that, I think you need to look at why you make the best gains during the 1st 4-6 weeks of a cycle. There are many factors I don't think you are considering.
1. Distance from your genetic potential. This may not be the best name for this but like it is easier to loose the 1st 15 lbs on a diet rather than the last 5, it is also true that it's harder to gain 5 more lbs after putting on 15.
2. The body's ability to adapt to food intake. Now here I think you'll find the main culprit. There are several examples I could give but let's take the most extreme- the BBer who just finished a contest. He's at a very low calorie intake and he's been there for weeks. He's fighting tooth and nail to get that last couple of lbs off. Now he's done. Here comes the food. Can we say anabolic environment? Also the leap in calories just can't be duplicated. Some people end up 1500 calories or less when finishing up their contest diet. Now if you want to bulk immediately following you can triple your calories intake fairly easily. Even the regular Joe who was eating away at 3400 maintenance can add 1200 calories no problem. But how many bulking diets have you seen start at 4600 and end up at 9200 calories?
3. How many bulkers do you see end up as cutters? This, IMO is flawed design but it's considered standard practice to use AS that "harden you up" at the end. Although there maybe nothing exactly wrong with the AS choices, what does this do to your mindset? It tells you it's ok not to put on any/much more weight.
4. Let's face it, the gains at the beginning are water! Muscle weighs as much as fat (but takes up 1/2 the space) so a lb of muscle (correct me if I'm wrong) takes 3500 calories to make. That's above maintenance levels. Do the math. It's hard to put on more than 2-3 lbs of muscle in a week. But we gain a lot more weight than that. Again H2O.
5. The body raises metabolism to account for the additional calories. Just as you diet, your body fights you to keep weight at a certain point when bulking the body will get used to the additional calories and eventually figure away to burn them off. A fat person for example (follow them around it's really true) can eat an amazing amount of calories and not gain a lb. Why, because their body's are used to the calorie intake. Sure they become fatter but the change has to be measured in months. Someone in the 270 range may get to 275 but it may take a year (over 5000 calories a day) to do so.
6. These same rules apply to naturals also. It's just that naturals have to watch the extremes much more closely, but they make there best gains during the 1st 4-6 weeks also.
So I say it's food, not gear. I would like to hear other opinions on this.
BTW: I loved this question!
learner202
Banana
LA I always like hearing what you have to say because you don't hardly every just post shit. I'm guilty of that! Seriously though bro good thought!
LaMastaKilla
New member
i agree... nice post
LA
New member
I did not see any plan..just the part where he says to eat 7500 cals...
I do like his thought on this...
wks 1-3 just Androgens( 1.5gs)-( 50mg Arimedex thru cycle)
wks 4-8 Androgens(2gms)- 4-6iu Gh (and maybe slin) -75mcg T3
50mg clomid
wks 9-13 75% Androgens- 25% Anabolics- 40-60iu IGF
wks 14-17 25% Anadrogens -75% Anabolics
50 mg clomid
wks 18-22 Ramp down gear dosages- adding HCG./Nolvedex
Also for someone who has been cycleing for 20 years he sure did have alot of questions...
He also was asking what to eat..this gets me thinking he it not be totally true with his stats...
I mean everybody I know that is getting up and anywhere between 275-300 they know exactly what it takes to get there and stay there....bodybuilding is a science not just thowing this and that together and you end up pro...
I do like his thought on this...
wks 1-3 just Androgens( 1.5gs)-( 50mg Arimedex thru cycle)
wks 4-8 Androgens(2gms)- 4-6iu Gh (and maybe slin) -75mcg T3
50mg clomid
wks 9-13 75% Androgens- 25% Anabolics- 40-60iu IGF
wks 14-17 25% Anadrogens -75% Anabolics
50 mg clomid
wks 18-22 Ramp down gear dosages- adding HCG./Nolvedex
Also for someone who has been cycleing for 20 years he sure did have alot of questions...
He also was asking what to eat..this gets me thinking he it not be totally true with his stats...
I mean everybody I know that is getting up and anywhere between 275-300 they know exactly what it takes to get there and stay there....bodybuilding is a science not just thowing this and that together and you end up pro...
LA
New member
There are certain elements of his post that I did choose to overlook. Like working out for 29 years and doing gear for 20. That would put him at about mid-40s (best age possible)? Then going to try to compete in a National level show. He could mean Master's but who knows?
I did like the 7500 calories!
I did like the 7500 calories!
LA what about this...
I have read articles about times fasting...you go one day with no eating every 3 weeks...then the next day after the fast you stuff...
Well instead of fasting what about this...I eat around 4800-5000 a day..well what about me eating 7000 one time a week every 1-2 weeks..or maybe more than once a week....This is assuming I could eat that much in a day...
Also for Double J I think one should switch test every 8 weeks..no need to bump but just switch and add 1 anabolic...
As for receptors shut down it has been proven wrong to many times...
This is how I look at it...
You have different shape receptors shaped like cirles, triangles, and squares...they are not really but this is just a way to explain it...so lets say prop has a circle shape....so if you run prop to long you are going to fill up all the circle receptors in the body..so then you need to switch to a different shape..like cyp which could be the triangle shape...
You get it.....
I have read articles about times fasting...you go one day with no eating every 3 weeks...then the next day after the fast you stuff...
Well instead of fasting what about this...I eat around 4800-5000 a day..well what about me eating 7000 one time a week every 1-2 weeks..or maybe more than once a week....This is assuming I could eat that much in a day...
Also for Double J I think one should switch test every 8 weeks..no need to bump but just switch and add 1 anabolic...
As for receptors shut down it has been proven wrong to many times...
This is how I look at it...
You have different shape receptors shaped like cirles, triangles, and squares...they are not really but this is just a way to explain it...so lets say prop has a circle shape....so if you run prop to long you are going to fill up all the circle receptors in the body..so then you need to switch to a different shape..like cyp which could be the triangle shape...
You get it.....
LA
New member
Ok, this maybe the last time you want my opinion.
Every notice that if you really stuff yourself at an event the next day even if you eat normal you didn't put on any weight? Again, the body finds some way to adjust.
But let's say you hit a sticking point (body weight set point previously established). You could really boost the crap out of your calories until you leap past it. In other words- say you are at 5000 calories a day, weigh 210 lbs and heading to 215. You get to 215 then bam- you are stuck! Then try eating everything and everybody (calories as high as 8, 9 or 10,000!) until you feel you are safely past the sticking point. Let's say 220 (maybe 218) and then cut back on calories (junk calories especially) thus returning back to an amount slightly above your previous level. This little eating blitz may only last 5-7 days or so.
Anyone ever try it, either on purpose or by accident? Maybe you did it without even realizing it? A vacation? Please comment if you did!
LA
New member
Easy!!!!
Meal 1- Start the day with a 3 scoop protein shake with 6 tablespoons of olive oil. After finishing it head over to Krispy Kreme for a half dozen donuts.
Meal 2- 3 scoops of protein powder and a half gallon of whole milk.
Meal 3- Time for McD's. 3-4 dbl-cheeseburgers and a super sized fry.
Meal 4- A lb of deli style roast beef.
Meal 5- Pre-workout. 1 scoop of protein powder and 1 carb ass-o-later (100 carbs, 16 oz).
Meal 6- Post workout. 4 scoops of whey, 2 carb ass-o-laters.
Meal 7- Prime Rib dinner, the mega king cut, baked potatoe.
Meal 8- 3 scoops of protein, blended with whole milk and a pint of ice cream.
Notice I didn't use Weider's Mega Weight Gain anywhere. I summit my way is much more fun!
iron horse
New member
how many calories is that LA?
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