Im starting to not believe in PCT
- Thread starter supermannpc
- Start date
Robbie said:
you but HCG can also have a reverse effect
Why dont you try a low dose of test to get things rolling again just for a few weeks with no PCT
S
saudades
Guest
I think it is possible to use AAS without PCT (or with a relatively low PCT). When you think of the old pros like Arnold, etc., you have to remember that they didn't have all the same drugs available to them as we have available to us. They probably knew all about how to use lower dosages of dbol to gain more muscle. Also, the aromatase enzyme uses adipose tissue as a site for conversion to estrogen. If you keep pretty low bodyfat all the time, you aren't going to have a lot of conversion happening as long as you are only taking moderate doses.
Proviron is great man
i would say if anything dont go overboard and over analyze it. arnold and the like didnt have these drugs, so obviously they didnt do any pct.
im just using some nolva 40, 20, 20, 20, and insulin 3x a week for this off month.
heres a good thread from promuscle:..........
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18112&highlight=pct
im just using some nolva 40, 20, 20, 20, and insulin 3x a week for this off month.
heres a good thread from promuscle:..........
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18112&highlight=pct
S
saudades
Guest
Bump, DB006.
S
saudades
Guest
That's pretty much what I do, though it is partially medically dictated since I can't come off anyway.
vertigorocks
New member
lets bring this topic back up
Crazymank
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
I just went off my cycle with no pct 5 months ago.
I think for short cycles, no pct works great.
Long/Heavy cycles- where you go into shut down, you'll need help.
also, some of us might be in need of hrt after years of cycling. I believe im one of these. I think my body is in continual shut down now. PCT might help but its almost like a cycle in itself. once you go off pct, your body goes back into shutdown.
i need a blood test to comfirm this, But something doesnt feel right.
I think for short cycles, no pct works great.
Long/Heavy cycles- where you go into shut down, you'll need help.
also, some of us might be in need of hrt after years of cycling. I believe im one of these. I think my body is in continual shut down now. PCT might help but its almost like a cycle in itself. once you go off pct, your body goes back into shutdown.
i need a blood test to comfirm this, But something doesnt feel right.
muscleitis
Banana
great thread. I think some times it's luck of the draw. I've done 500 mg tes e for 10 weeks w/ no taper or pct and had no issues w/ only a couple of cycles under my belt. I've got a buddy that did 10 cc of cyp (his only cycle) dosing @ 200,300,350,300,200(old school bs) for 6 weeks, had unreal gains. no pct, 6 monts later he was in a meeting and began to lactate!!. subsided on its own after a while.
muscleitis
Banana
So how would you run hcg and nolv, timing and dose?.body2see said:What I have found to be true after years of trial and error, is that HCG, though many don't believe in at all, and everyone has their own opinion on its use, is that it is important in bringing natural levels back to normal "quicker"
I have come to this conclusion after monthly blood work, and visits to an endocronologist to be sure that everything was up to par...
What I found when not using HCG or PCT after a cycle, was yes, your body can return to normal on it's own, this is possible, BUT it takes alot longer for several reasons. For one, your testes being atrophied(shrunken) is the worse case scenario, since they cannot produce near as much in terms of hormones, besides just natural test. What I found was that it would take nearly 6months naturally to return to normal. During this 6month period, my prolactin levels were so high that this was causing loss of libido, temporary impotence, depression, loss of muscle,etc, etc....all the same effects a lowered testosterone level would cause.
BTW, the prolactin level increase is what is responsible for lactation and some pre-gyno symptoms, and is very easily controlled with Dostinex/Cabaser...I know I talk about this drug in every thread, but it is invaluable to users who are sensitive to pre-gyno from tren/dbol/deca, etc...
So anyways, long story short, with PCT, even just HCG and Nolva, my levels were able to get to normal for my age after only 2 months, and I strongly believe that the HCG is primarily responsible due to it's increase in testes size, thus allowing you to produce a higher level of naturally occuring testosterone. Based on these experiences, it makes sense that when you use HCG it does spike your levels of testosterone that are naturally occuring. It also increases LH and several other key hormones, but what is important to note is that it increases YOUR natural levels, and these are not synthetic hormones.
So it would seem that your body if it were making 1000nanograms of test because you are running 5000iu of HCG per week, would be easier to adjust itself to say the 600nanograms a 25 year old male might be making...these are just figures Im throwing out there not exact. What this might mean is that if your testes are above your natural level, then it only need adjust downward, which is far easier than if your test levels post cycle reach say 300nanograms, which I have seen happen several times personally, and you have to work up to that same 600nano's to be maintaining your natural levels. At this point you have to wait to build up, whereas on HCG PCT you are above your levels, and only have to adjust downwards.
Now the Nolva has been shown to slightly increase natural test levels, though there is much argument about this in the BB community...you be the judge, but from my experience I have made gains on Nolva alone from this effect, so I know this to be true, along with several other factors, and of course the fact that Nolva is going to help control estrogen levels, which will reduce gains. You would need the nolva to combat the side effects of either HCG or your bodies natural return to it's natural levels, since the spikes in testosterone certainly will cause spikes in estrogen.
Think about how many people break out with acne, or make gains with PCT alone, this verifies this fact. Also, again I recently had the experience of watching an individual who was taking a very high dosage of HCG for fertility reasons, gain 15 pounds now in a 2 month period. He has all the symptoms of increased testosterone, puffy face, puffy nipples, increase in strength, muscle, acne, etc, etc, and his levels for a 30 year old male were off the chart. His prolactin levels and Estrogen are through the roof as well. Also consider CLOMID and the increases in natural production this can help assist in. Then alot of users are using Aromasin to help with PCT nowadays as well.
Overall, I think personally I find that PCT cannot and does not on it's own bring your levels back to normal, but instead I think it is a jumpstart which dramatically helps maintain gains, and will allow the users body to naturally adjust to normal, if that persons body is still capable of normal levels of testosterone production post cycle. I do feel certain compounds resist PCT more than others, and by far I would say Deca is one of these. Other noticeable difficult PCT's might be Tren/Anadrol, and many others. I almost wonder if ProLactin has an absolute effect on a slower post cycle therapy and is why I run Dostinex/Cabaser year round. Regardless of scientific data, I tend to recover at a very high rate this way in comparison, and even if it differs person to person, this might be something many users need to get their levels back to normal???
^^^my 2cents
great post B2S
something that I do is run clomid throughout the cycle and then for 2 weeks after, during PCT
the clomid won't keep you from shutting down, but keeping it in your system does help your body's natural to jump start in my opinion (reciting what B2S said) :thumbsup:
something that I do is run clomid throughout the cycle and then for 2 weeks after, during PCT
the clomid won't keep you from shutting down, but keeping it in your system does help your body's natural to jump start in my opinion (reciting what B2S said) :thumbsup:
Reptile8030
New member
I have'nt used gear yet, but I have taken prohormones, not the same ,but my personal experience is pct really does'nt do much for me either, in fact I lose alot of size and strength when I'm off cycle and ponder the same question as spc, like a while back when I asked how much strength and size do you lose over time when in season and what not, anyway, I take pct and have the same strength and gains when I'm finished with the pct, so I don't really know if it works at all, other than that I think running clomid is a good solution to pct based on my research other than that, good luck
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