Is PCT really a good idea?

[Pharm_Fed]

I have been reading a lot lately about PCT and different methods, opinions, etc. I've found that a lot of veteran users claim PCT is not necessary and actually worse for you. They suggest tapering your dosage down gradually instead. The reasoning behind this is that if you are throwing your endocrine system all out of whack by administering exogenous hormones, why would pumping your body full of more of them help it regain homeostasis. Makes sense. Some of them suggest natural test boosters, etc, instead of the traditional Clomid, Nolva, etc.

What do you guys think about this? Does anyone here use this approach? Granted the cycle I just finished was very low dose, but my balls had grown back to original size less than two week after my last shot (before I ever started any PCT). I took Clomid for 10 days anyway, but I don't really think I needed it.

 

[Shaptown]

ABSOLUTELY FUCKING LUDICROUS!

Tapering up and down dosages is an OLD outdated, far inferior method for many reasons.

PCT IS INDEED completely necessary. Many believe it just hastens recovery, and while that may be true, there may be a cycle you run that you would not have otherwise fully recovered from without proper PCT protocol.

PCT is in my opinion the MOST important part of the cycle, because if you don't run it properly, you can kiss most of your gains goodbye.

My current PCT protocols look like this:

Weeks 1-4: 50mg Clomid
Weeks 1-4: 50mg Toremifene
Weeks 1-6: 100mg SARMs S4
Weeks 1-8: 100mg Proviron
Weeks 1-7: 12.5mg Aromasin

Have experimnted a LOT in the past, and I find this to be far superior to any other protocol I have ever ran. It also helps with recovery tremendously to be on peptides concurrently; I am talking stuff like GH, IGF (this one is incredible for PCT, but I run it just about all the time anyway). I haven't been on them long, but I have a feeling CJC-1295, and GHRP-2 will also be phenomenal integral pieces of my future PCTs.

 

[deeznuutz]

Sup guys... I'm new to the board as far as posting but have been a member for quite some time... I've been a aas user now 5 years.. I compete also state level and have been working out consistently (ie 5-6 meals train/trained 4-6 x weekly) lil over 10 years... Here is my observations... and I stress the word OBSERVATIONS...
When I 1st started using aas I did pct of various protocols...too many to mention... Basically i tried every protocol aas included that i read with on most of these boards.. and personally I think pct in the traditional sense IS indeed worthless to me...
observation:
my 1st three cycles pct's included clomid, hcg, nolvadex, and or arimidex depending upon what protocol i used...i've also included igf lr3 early on as well in some of my pcts maybe after 3rd cycle cant rememeber...
the last 3 years either ive used otc products for pct or no pct @ all... the difference is astounding...
When on a traditional pct the sides for me tend to be as bad or worse than the actual cycle... Clomid to me is old school and shouldnt be used at all imo... on paper alot of these protocols look great but in practice not something that could work for everyone..clomid (ive tried pills, suspension, and even made it injectable) gives me horrible hives, issues with my vision, and twice a horrible flu tends to show up only when im taking clomid (maybe a coincidence)...i do use ai's during cycle now but ive not used them post cycle sometimes in the past jus because i was broke... I also think that if you're using hcg post cycle there would be no need for clomid since both are to stimulate ledig cells by jumpstartin hpta.. No im not an expert and most of my research is done for personal use only... I try not to give advice... just my experience...
Now should you use pct? What im observing seems the older you are the less one needs a Pharmaceutical pct protocol.... Ive used (believe it or not) tribulus and hcg and arimidex as a pct with great results in comparison with all other pcts ive tried... Also just hcg alone... i source locally and NO ONE HERE pcts @ all! Only one person I know suffered an aggressive depression.. I just think in general its not one of those things written in stone... Like warming up before exercise.. thats written in stone.... Its one of those things to me used on a "as needed" basis.... its sounds stupid and more than likely cant be proven on paper but tapering tends to work well....IMO i think its more about stable blood levels on cycle or off... when i learned to keep consistent blood levels with tapering doseages i stopped even having acne during cycles.... and off cycle (you know that "rebound" acne)... No offense to anyone on this board but i think you havent gone cold turkey from a cycle yourself having an opinion on the subject would be moot... With aas you HAVE to FEEL a cycle or protocol to honestly assess what works.. Ive experimented on myself for a while... Ive even gone to the point of injecting 3 ccs of BA just to prove BA isnt what makes you sore.... JMO... Hope I contributed some insight for you fellas.... LOL nice 1st post sorry so long... NIce to meet you all... ;-)

 

[Presser]

Sup guys... I'm new to the board as far as posting but have been a member for quite some time... I've been a aas user now 5 years.. I compete also state level and have been working out consistently (ie 5-6 meals train/trained 4-6 x weekly) lil over 10 years... Here is my observations... and I stress the word OBSERVATIONS...
When I 1st started using aas I did pct of various protocols...too many to mention... Basically i tried every protocol aas included that i read with on most of these boards.. and personally I think pct in the traditional sense IS indeed worthless to me...
observation:
my 1st three cycles pct's included clomid, hcg, nolvadex, and or arimidex depending upon what protocol i used...i've also included igf lr3 early on as well in some of my pcts maybe after 3rd cycle cant rememeber...
the last 3 years either ive used otc products for pct or no pct @ all... the difference is astounding...
When on a traditional pct the sides for me tend to be as bad or worse than the actual cycle... Clomid to me is old school and shouldnt be used at all imo... on paper alot of these protocols look great but in practice not something that could work for everyone..clomid (ive tried pills, suspension, and even made it injectable) gives me horrible hives, issues with my vision, and twice a horrible flu tends to show up only when im taking clomid (maybe a coincidence)...i do use ai's during cycle now but ive not used them post cycle sometimes in the past jus because i was broke... I also think that if you're using hcg post cycle there would be no need for clomid since both are to stimulate ledig cells by jumpstartin hpta.. No im not an expert and most of my research is done for personal use only... I try not to give advice... just my experience...
Now should you use pct? What im observing seems the older you are the less one needs a Pharmaceutical pct protocol.... Ive used (believe it or not) tribulus and hcg and arimidex as a pct with great results in comparison with all other pcts ive tried... Also just hcg alone... i source locally and NO ONE HERE pcts @ all! Only one person I know suffered an aggressive depression.. I just think in general its not one of those things written in stone... Like warming up before exercise.. thats written in stone.... Its one of those things to me used on a "as needed" basis.... its sounds stupid and more than likely cant be proven on paper but tapering tends to work well....IMO i think its more about stable blood levels on cycle or off... when i learned to keep consistent blood levels with tapering doseages i stopped even having acne during cycles.... and off cycle (you know that "rebound" acne)... No offense to anyone on this board but i think you havent gone cold turkey from a cycle yourself having an opinion on the subject would be moot... With aas you HAVE to FEEL a cycle or protocol to honestly assess what works.. Ive experimented on myself for a while... Ive even gone to the point of injecting 3 ccs of BA just to prove BA isnt what makes you sore.... JMO... Hope I contributed some insight for you fellas.... LOL nice 1st post sorry so long... NIce to meet you all... ;-)

good first post bro! And thank you for your observation and opinion! Personaly Im not a pct guy either, but thats just me. Anyhow your opinion is appreciated and i hope you post more bro since u been lurking so long

 

[majortguns]

good first post bro! And thank you for your observation and opinion! Personaly Im not a pct guy either, but thats just me. Anyhow your opinion is appreciated and i hope you post more bro since u been lurking so long

So what do you do when you come off presser.

 

[Shaptown]

So what do you do when you come off presser.

he is probably on TRT and doesn't come off so he is not a good example of proper cycling by someone NOT on TRT...

Again just my thoughts.

 

[deeznuutz]

good first post bro! And thank you for your observation and opinion! Personaly Im not a pct guy either, but thats just me. Anyhow your opinion is appreciated and i hope you post more bro since u been lurking so long

Thank you... I'm no longer bound by corporate america so I have a lil more time on my hands... I like this board alot... not alot bs... i'll get my post on now... peace

 

[saudades]

The common consensus I've been finding these days even among doctors/endocrinologists that are "in the know," is to keep normal production going during the cycle using both HCG and clomid so a typical PCT at the end isn't needed. Doing that keeps levels going after you come off cycle. NOTE: I did not say "no PCT." I said the "typical PCT" isn't needed. That means you still need to do something, but it's easier because some normal production/recovery is already there.

 

[NAIR]

Used to do all that guru shit but now I just go by feel. Very conservative, nothing standard: Little HCG, little clomid - that's it.

 

[Pharm_Fed]

The common consensus I've been finding these days even among doctors/endocrinologists that are "in the know," is to keep normal production going during the cycle using both HCG and clomid so a typical PCT at the end isn't needed. Doing that keeps levels going after you come off cycle. NOTE: I did not say "no PCT." I said the "typical PCT" isn't needed. That means you still need to do something, but it's easier because some normal production/recovery is already there.

Can you elaborate a little? HCG and clomid during cycle, and then what would you do post cycle?

 

[Presser]

he is probably on TRT and doesn't come off so he is not a good example of proper cycling by someone NOT on TRT...

Again just my thoughts.

:thumbsup:

 

[dreww]

ive used many different pct protocols....nolvadex only, clomid only, hcg only, and combinations.

results wise, no difference. but i never gain alot, my nads never shrink, and i lose very little, usually just a few reps in strength.

and my disclaimer....this is only from my person experience.

 

[saudades]

Can you elaborate a little? HCG and clomid during cycle, and then what would you do post cycle?

Usual dosages would be 500iu HCG every three days, clomid at 40-50mg/week during the cycle.

Post cycle:
Nolvadex at 40mg/day (or Toremifene 50mg) 1-4 weeks
Clomid 40-50mg/day 1-4 weeks
IGF if you can (whatever dosage you like but at least 30-40mcg) 4-6 weeks or as long as you can
If you can get Aromasin, 12.5mg, 1-6 weeks at least (other anti-aromatase like arimidex and femara can work too--.5mg, but not as well since there can still be an estrogen rebound. This doesn't happen with Aromasin.)

I like the components of the PCT Shaptown mentioned, but SARMS aren't always as obtainable as I would like. If I had the money, I'd do what he outlined.

 

[deeznuutz]

Usual dosages would be 500iu HCG every three days, clomid at 40-50mg/week during the cycle.

Post cycle:
Nolvadex at 40mg/day (or Toremifene 50mg) 1-4 weeks
Clomid 40-50mg/day 1-4 weeks
IGF if you can (whatever dosage you like but at least 30-40mcg) 4-6 weeks or as long as you can
If you can get Aromasin, 12.5mg, 1-6 weeks at least (other anti-aromatase like arimidex and femara can work too--.5mg, but not as well since there can still be an estrogen rebound. This doesn't happen with Aromasin.)

I like the components of the PCT Shaptown mentioned, but SARMS aren't always as obtainable as I would like. If I had the money, I'd do what he outlined.

Is your hcg @ 1-4 weeks as well? Ive always done mine @ 3 weeks... and are you using hcg only during cycle?

 

[MrPerfect]

Used to do all that guru shit but now I just go by feel. Very conservative, nothing standard: Little HCG, little clomid - that's it.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

no ones body is the same... everyone needs to have a dirrerent approch to see what works for them. there is always guidlines and standards to follow, but figuring out what works for YOU is the real trick

 

[Pharm_Fed]

Usual dosages would be 500iu HCG every three days, clomid at 40-50mg/week during the cycle.

Post cycle:
Nolvadex at 40mg/day (or Toremifene 50mg) 1-4 weeks
Clomid 40-50mg/day 1-4 weeks
IGF if you can (whatever dosage you like but at least 30-40mcg) 4-6 weeks or as long as you can
If you can get Aromasin, 12.5mg, 1-6 weeks at least (other anti-aromatase like arimidex and femara can work too--.5mg, but not as well since there can still be an estrogen rebound. This doesn't happen with Aromasin.)

I like the components of the PCT Shaptown mentioned, but SARMS aren't always as obtainable as I would like. If I had the money, I'd do what he outlined.

That looks pretty standard. And, it's more chemicals than my actual cycle would consist of. That's what I'm trying to avoid.