Progressive Cycles

[weight77`]

I am sorry bro I hate when people do that to me...but when there is something brouth up why not go with it...my posts were all related to your post....the test shape thing....

anyway so LA are you thinking it cold work..I could do it and see....I dont ever put on fat...even if I try....I stay at about 5-6% year round so I would not care to try...I just dont think my body would accept it....

 

[DIEZEL666]

Double J

Just a thought, but the rationale behind long cycles is so that your body gets used too the new mass and adjusts it set point and adds support systems for the new muscle. I believe you could do the same thing by using short acting androgens for a high dose for 4-6 weeks. Then, 2 weeks before cycle end start running 40mcg IGF ED, and continue this 2 weeks past the end of the cycle. The IGF would quickly provide the support systems needed for the new mass, plus the rate of protein synthesis would be higher. This would in turn lead to greater retention of gains in a shorter period of time. You could then do 4 weeks with GH/Slin before starting everything over again. Remember, the body doesn't grow in a linear fashion. It will fight for homeostasis. You have to constantly change things up. Hope that made sense.

 

[weight77`]

I dont think it would work..And you wold not get anything out of gh in 4 weeks...

I think it could work if you ran the aas 10 weeks...

 

[DIEZEL666]

Weight

With 10 weeks you would be running into the same problem. The body would adjust itself for the prolonged hormone levels. The idea is to get a non steroidal mechanism to maintain your support systems. Also, why would you not gain off of GH in 4 weeks? I've heard of plenty of guys that only run it 6 days a month and make outstanding gains. For fat burning, this isn't best, but to build muscle it works quite well. Thanks.

 

[LA]

how many calories is that LA?

I can't count that high!

 

[weight77`]

It would probally average out to like 1500 cals a meal times 8...so it would be like 12,000 cals a day...Just a guess...

there would be some major fat and carbs in there...I dont even know...

 

[LA]

DIEZEL- Interesting theory but I have a "thing" about short cycles and basically HPTA shutdown. I believe that HPTA shutdown will occur in less than 2 weeks and that a cycle somewhere between 2 weeks and 8-12 the recovery time for HPTA will be the same. So why not run the cycle out at least 8-12 weeks, then add the IGF (last 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) followed-up by the GH and Slin?

I like your thinking about how to use IGF. Again showing how versital IGF is. Also it's not my intention to turn this particular thread into a debate on short cycles vs. long.

 

[weight77`]

6 days a month is not accurate...Have you ever run it...If you have then you wold know exactly what I am talking about....all it does is build pure muscle tissue..Do you think it is powerful enough to do that 6 days a month...

6 weeks is just not long enough...You would just be blasting your body with shit...then pulling out all the things that supported that new gain..AAS..IGF will not make up..one again it only builds prue muscle...thats why it is suggested to run with other things and not alone...It is very hard to build new tissue...I would be suprised if I put on 15lbs of pure muslce this year...I might get 10..the average pro BBer puts on 2 lbs of tissue a year....

 

[DIEZEL666]

LA

I agree with your point, but it's not necessarily all about HPTA shutdown, but about super saturating the androgen receptors before your body can respond with a negative response. Action/Reaction. You built the mass quickly with the androgens, now use the IGF to let your body get accustomed to the weight. Thanks.

 

[weight77`]

and I think you have it the other way around with gh not cutting fat and really only building muscle...It is great for fat loss and not for muscle build short term...

 

[MaxRep]

As I read through this post, I see there's a lot of interesting questions, thoughts and opinions.

The concept of eating an ultra high calorie diet for a few days or a week to blast over a sticking point is absolutely correct, in my experience. That is exactly what I do whenever I feel I've plateaued and if it lasts for 3-4 weeks, and I'm obviously not getting anywhere, I go into a blast mode with the food. Also, just as with training, there need to be times to "deload" with the food.

The following question/statement, would be incorrect.

"You have different shape receptors shaped like cirles, triangles, and squares...they are not really but this is just a way to explain it...so lets say prop has a circle shape....so if you run prop to long you are going to fill up all the circle receptors in the body..so then you need to switch to a different shape..like cyp which could be the triangle shape..."

You have androgen receptor (AR) sites. The ester is immaterial. You also don't have AR sites that are specific to different types of steroids. There is no such thing as AR sites specific to Deca, others where Winstrol would attach and others where Tren would attach, no.

Back to the original poster, I don't believe changing up the type of steroid half way through a long cycle will spur any type of additional or faster growth, beyond what a person is already experiencing. Once you have a fairly high level of steroids in your system, say somewhere around 2-3 grams/week +/- the only things that will increase your growth rate are changes in training, rest or diet.

As far as spurring faster growth with increasing the AAS dosages even further, beyond say 3 grams/week, personally, I don't think that works so well. There comes a point of diminishing returns. I've seen plenty of guys who at 2,000mg's/week, have more muscle than guys on 4,000mg's/week. Of course I'm not speaking to the pro's who need every additional ounce of muscle at any cost.

MaxRep

 

[DIEZEL666]

Weight

That's interesting, because everything I've seen indicates that the fat starts to come off after prolonged usage of GH, while the "blasts" are great for muscle growth. Can you detail some of your experiences? Thanks.

 

[weight77`]

These are just articles you have...I have personal experience...With GH muscle forms very slow...If you could use gh only 6 days a month and have great gains then you would never here about how much gh costs...Because one kit could last a whole year...

In my experience you must use gh for atlast 8 week before you start to see good results....It sould be run for atleast 6 months imo....

You have to form the new tisuue with the gh and then you have to bulid up that new tisuue...

Also MAX REP I dont understand what you are saying...I have gone through this many times..but never come out with a clear answer...

My question is then why do so many suggest changing out drugs every so many weeks...I do this my slef and it does work...

I also agree with you on how it does not make sence but then why would changing out drugs work..

 

[DIEZEL666]

Weight

While I have no experience personally with the GH blasts, it is not information gathered predominately from articles. Many of the people I speak with have used this method with excellent results. It seems (anecdotally) to be backed up by research, namely mimicking the body's natural production during puberty. I see what you mean about GH causing new growth, but that seems to be the cause of IGF production in the body via GH conversion. That is why Test + Tren results in such solid gains. It raises IGF like nothing else, which in turn activates satellite cells. I will be personally experimenting with IGF beginning next week, so I will let you know how it turns out. Thanks again for the input.

 

[MaxRep]

Weight, I think there are a lot of variables that are hard to control, and that makes it difficult to really know what's causing any improvement. Some AAS promote water retention while others don't, and some seem to work better for a particular person than others.

Another factor is; are the dosages exactly the same, right down to the ester. As I'm sure you know, the actual amount of Test your body receives when using Test Susp. is quite different than the amount of Test your body receives when using Test Cyp. There's also the benefit that comes from simply thinking something will work better and therefore it does. It's hard to keep all variable exactly the same, including; life style, AAS dosages, training, eating and rest for 20 straight weeks.

Speaking personally, with about 24 years experience using AAS, when I get really strict with all variables, I can almost always identify changes in training and eating as the prime reasons for any unusual physique changes when on a cycle. What I mean by this is I know how my body reacts with various AAS, various combinations and various dosages. When I make an AAS change, I generally get the expected result within the limits of what the AAS can do. Any changes outside those limits, can usually be traced back to training, eating or life style issues.

Take for example, a sudden physique improvement or sudden weight gain half way through a cycle, and it's clearly due to a change in type of AAS. That change however, can only be as great as what will happen within the confines of the type of change expected with that particular AAS and dosage. Adding Adrol at 75mg/day for the last 6 weeks of a bulking cycle will cause a jump in my weight. But that's only due to Adrol's characteristics, not due to different AR sites or refreshing the AR sites or anything else.

As far as the AR sites and the drugs that interact with them, again, there is one type of AR site and all drugs attach in a similar way. Some bind more strongly with the AR than others but they all use the same AR sites.

MaxRep

 

[weight77`]

DIEZEL666 Are you going to run the 6 days a month cycle with your gh...and if not why...if you are post your results at the end of the month...I would like to know what you experience is with it...also for it to be accurate you would have to run it alone or with the same dosage you have always used...and with the same training and eating....

MaxRep...You are totally right there are two many X factors to know really what it is with most people...But not so much with atheltes...I keep track of all info...I could tell you what I ate 6 months ago and what time I went to bed...so for me there are a limited amount of X factors...

But you are right my theory of shapes does not make any sense...And you seem to be smart....

 

[weight77`]

Re: Weight

namely mimicking the body's natural production during puberty. I see what you mean about GH causing new growth, but that seems to be the cause of IGF production in the body via GH conversion. That is why Test + Tren results in such solid gains. It raises IGF like nothing else, which in turn activates satellite cells..

All you really did was tell me what gh does...It does not prove that short cycles work....

I would almost bet my life that if you run gh like you plan to you will get nothig out of it...6 days a month is equal to one week..you in no way could see any results in one week of gh..atleast no outstanding results like you you said..

Also I am not trying to argue I am just saying that you have no personal experience with it and you are trying to pass over a theory and say it works...that is all...

Peace..

 

[DIEZEL666]

Weight

I see where your coming from. I obviously didn't make myself clear. The 6 days of GH are not normal use days. On the 6 days of use you jack up the dose to 18iu's a day. The doses are split up throughout the day. This method has been done successfully by many people. As far as me using GH, I think you misunderstood. I posted that I plan on trying IGF. I will post my results with it, and how I ran it. I look forward to hearing your input then also. Thanks again bro.

 

[Skip]

You and I are going to get along just fine, bro.

Skip

Weight, I think there are a lot of variables that are hard to control, and that makes it difficult to really know what's causing any improvement. Some AAS promote water retention while others don't, and some seem to work better for a particular person than others.

Another factor is; are the dosages exactly the same, right down to the ester. As I'm sure you know, the actual amount of Test your body receives when using Test Susp. is quite different than the amount of Test your body receives when using Test Cyp. There's also the benefit that comes from simply thinking something will work better and therefore it does. It's hard to keep all variable exactly the same, including; life style, AAS dosages, training, eating and rest for 20 straight weeks.

Speaking personally, with about 24 years experience using AAS, when I get really strict with all variables, I can almost always identify changes in training and eating as the prime reasons for any unusual physique changes when on a cycle. What I mean by this is I know how my body reacts with various AAS, various combinations and various dosages. When I make an AAS change, I generally get the expected result within the limits of what the AAS can do. Any changes outside those limits, can usually be traced back to training, eating or life style issues.

Take for example, a sudden physique improvement or sudden weight gain half way through a cycle, and it's clearly due to a change in type of AAS. That change however, can only be as great as what will happen within the confines of the type of change expected with that particular AAS and dosage. Adding Adrol at 75mg/day for the last 6 weeks of a bulking cycle will cause a jump in my weight. But that's only due to Adrol's characteristics, not due to different AR sites or refreshing the AR sites or anything else.

As far as the AR sites and the drugs that interact with them, again, there is one type of AR site and all drugs attach in a similar way. Some bind more strongly with the AR than others but they all use the same AR sites.

MaxRep

 

[MaxRep]

Thanks Skip. I'll mention that I've been very impressed with your posts in the various areas, especially contest prep. And it's people like you, LA and the other mods/vets that have attracted me to this place, even though I'm a mod on another board.

MaxRep