To much Anti - E's slow muscle gains down...

[Chris250]

What do you guy think on this...??? Do you believe if your running say, a gram of test a week (or more) what should your Anti - E's be dosed at not to hinder your muscle gains...You need some estrogen to grow on, but you dont want to much (fat/water weight) or you dont want to supress it to much to hurt muscle gains...

Arimadex ?
Letro ?

 

[Crazymank]

Its been a law now for some time that you have to have a certain amount of estrogen to build muscle. The details have been missing though- i dont know why???

I personally keep the estrogen down cause i have a problem with bp, plus i cant get to bloated without the wife wondering if im on.

 

[Get_Swole]

Since nolvadex is specifically a SERM i dont see how it would effect your gains that much? Its not killing your overall estrogen like letro or adex so i would think it would be a better course of action am i way off base here?

 

[Crazymank]

no... i think your right on. I could see if your walking on stage, but otherwise, a little bloat is no big deal.

 

[Get_Swole]

no... i think your right on. I could see if your walking on stage, but otherwise, a little bloat is no big deal.

thats how i feel thats why i really wanna get my bodyfat back down near 12% or maybe a touch higher by the time i go back on that way a little bloat doesnt bother me.

 

[saudades]

For me, when I get too much estrogen, I start to break out with acne on my body. I take some anti-e just enough so that the acne dies down and heals, and that can vary, but it's usually something like 2.5 - 5mg of letro every 3-4 days.

 

[highside]

I am stumped on the anti-e's. I can not find anything that will work, no matter how much I were to take. I never had a problem with soreness or knots until a year or two ago taking some crappy prohormone (ya I know better). I developed small knots that were sore. When not on anything they got real small and did not hurt. Since then, if I even look at stuff I get sore. I have tried nolvadex, armidex, anti-p, and femara. Nothing will stop the soreness. I am lost. I could take loads of all those and they do not help one bit.

 

[visine224]

For me, when I get too much estrogen, I start to break out with acne on my body. I take some anti-e just enough so that the acne dies down and heals, and that can vary, but it's usually something like 2.5 - 5mg of letro every 3-4 days.

I wasnt aware it could help with acne you say letro...can you ellaborate..excuse my ignorance...iv only used armidex, nolva and clomid

edit..letrazole..got it im covered taking armidex which is a ai as well

 

[Get_Swole]

since researching this topic a ton an learning what i think to be alot from when i started using ill give my take.
Estrogen is needed in a mans body this is a given. I think an AI should be used in every cycle aromasin has been proven to actually help your lipids instead of hinder them and is not liver toxic so theres no problem with running this throughout the entire cycle. From now on i will probably be relying on bloodwork to decide the amount of AI's to use. Your estrogen can be too high without showing signs such as gyno acne etc. The only way to really know what your estradiol is, is to get bloodwork done. If your on cycle and your sex drive is low its most likely a case of high estrogen. Just because your not sore on your nips or bloated doesnt mean your estro isnt too high. From here out i will have aromasin on hand every cycle and monitor my bloodwork about 5 weeks into the cycle to know where im at. Usually 12.5 or so mg's ED of aromasin is enough for most people but its safe to use at even 25mg's a day if you need it.
The problem i have with adex is its not as effective as aromasin, it also is taken down in effect by nolva. So if you are on adex and need some nolva then it prevents the adex from working to its full potential. Plus being not as good on lipids as aromasin hopefully i wont need to run adex anymore.
So cliffs for my thoughts are, if your using 2.5mg's of letro which is one of the strongest anti's available you are probably hindering gains because your estro is probably at nill while on that amount. But using an AI at a decent dose to keep your estradial between 15 and 25 you are getting the best of both worlds. Enough estrogen as to not hinder gains, but not too much as to show unwanted sides such as acne, gyno, bloat etc.

 

[visine224]

Im running armidex with cyp and just started igf1 lr3,hcg and clen...should be fine without nolvadex at this point ... since you wont take armidex what do you recomend aromasin alone?

 

[Get_Swole]

Im running armidex with cyp and just started igf1 lr3,hcg and clen...should be fine without nolvadex at this point ... since you wont take armidex what do you recomend aromasin alone?

Its not that i wont take adex im actually taking it right now. I just wont in the future since aromasin is a much better option. When you come off adex you also have alot of rebound estrogen this is not a problem with aromasin. Also it raises igf1 levels as well instead of lowering them like nolva.

Yea you could do fine with aromasin alone keep nolva on hand of course in case you still have problems. Im also not saying dont take adex its a great product and does what its supposed to i just think there are better options out there is all. If it works then sometimes its best not to switch it if you get my drift.

 

[visine224]

Thanks bro appreciate the input

 

[mickdoo]

my last blood test revealed mY estrogen to be 64, under 50 is normal, my test level was 4000, free test was at 900 +, only thing I took was Dim 4 times daily

 

[saudades]

I am stumped on the anti-e's. I can not find anything that will work, no matter how much I were to take. I never had a problem with soreness or knots until a year or two ago taking some crappy prohormone (ya I know better). I developed small knots that were sore. When not on anything they got real small and did not hurt. Since then, if I even look at stuff I get sore. I have tried nolvadex, armidex, anti-p, and femara. Nothing will stop the soreness. I am lost. I could take loads of all those and they do not help one bit.

Are you sure it's estrogen that is causing it? If you've been on deca and tren often (some prohormones can utilize the same aromatase pathway, btw), then it is more than likely progesterone-induced gyno which won't respond to an anti-e. You have to get something like Cabaser (dostinex) or bromocriptine to stop it.

 

[The Deuce]

It has been YEARS since I have had to run an anti-e.. And I do exuberant amount of Testosterone on some occasions.. MY MIRACLE.. Proviron!! Not only does it keep estro at bay, but it does so.. WITHOUT Hindering gains, but more so.. aiding in Gains because of the binding to SHBG and allowing you to keep the bloat down, keep estro down, and still make MASSIVE Gains in your cycle.

I can't remember the last time I took Nolva or A-dex, and I have NEVER EVER Taken Letro..

Plus the added SEXUAL Kick makes it a million and one times more important to run it..

Then say you are slamming a 19-nor.. CABER and you are stylin'..

 

[The Dude]

It has been YEARS since I have had to run an anti-e.. And I do exuberant amount of Testosterone on some occasions.. MY MIRACLE.. Proviron!! Not only does it keep estro at bay, but it does so.. WITHOUT Hindering gains, but more so.. aiding in Gains because of the binding to SHBG and allowing you to keep the bloat down, keep estro down, and still make MASSIVE Gains in your cycle.

I can't remember the last time I took Nolva or A-dex, and I have NEVER EVER Taken Letro..

Plus the added SEXUAL Kick makes it a million and one times more important to run it..

Then say you are slamming a 19-nor.. CABER and you are stylin'..

I take no anti E's but I will be getting some Proviron soon. That hard dense look is insane. I only use anti E the last 4 weeks before a show and Letro 1 week out. None other than that. I use dyazide to keep bloat and high BP away.
That's at 3g a week of test.