Dienolone was OK for me, but didn't do too much and the PIP was crippling for 5 days after and with an Ace product that is a problem....................now desoxytest is my alltime favorite cutter. If I could ever stock back up on DTA or DTC ( I like this one the best) I would buy a pallet...........you get close to 10% BF and talk about a game changer!! For those of you who never tried desoxytest, it did thing that mast didn't do. The only down side was some poeple got out of control acne..........I was one of the lucky few who had no issues.