How to Run HCG during a steroid cycle and post cycle dosages

I dont use HGC because I'm on HRT. Opinions very greatly on HGC use but at least you know what doesn't work for you.

I would try this HGC protocol Presser posted




I hear good things about structuring your PCT like this.

Iron-game said:

I dont use HGC because I'm on HRT. Opinions very greatly on HGC use but at least you know what doesn't work for you.

I would try this HGC protocol Presser posted

I hear good things about structuring your PCT like this.

Click to expand...

Cheers ill give this go i got HCG a bit late like week 6.

Let us know how it goes.

I saw a post of a scheduled cycle with someone using 20mg a day of nolvadex for gyno on cycle. I will use nolvadex in conjunction with an AI but you need to look at nolvadex half life. Its long, I can't remember exactly but its very long so you don't need nolvadex daily for gunk purposes 2 to 3 days a week on cycle is more than enough nolvadex to prevent gyno or block estro from attaching at the receptor site but its use on cycle is much different than in pct. I always prefer toremifene to any SERM but I will use nolvadex because I have gyno, don't be fooled once you have it you always have it but I have been able to maintain mine to the size of a bb. One thing to keep in mind if using hcg on cycle which one done plenty of times, hcg will cause estro to be produced in the gonads and its not effected by an AI so over use during a cycle will cause an abundance of estro that's not effected by an ai, I don't have time to explain it all and type all the details to it and maybe it was covered in a post by presser but also remember the half life of nolva so on cycle use for gyno is great but you do not need to dose it daily it can lead to blood clots so be smart remember to check half life's of everything and be safe

Sent from my LG-H830 using Tapatalk

its 5 days for Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) and yes bodybuilders who are trying to control or better used for eliminating gyno related issues usually tend to take this drug daily. I will explain more on Nolvadex in another reply and for the record so everyone understands how half-lives work, i will make a new thread on it, and go drug by drug (pct drugs , serms) and give values of drug left after each half-life. And i might as well leave a quick run down in this thread of what "half life" meanes:




HALF-LIFE Translation : "Time it takes for the plasma concentration or the amount of drug in the body to be reduced by 50%."

Half-Life Delineation, Explanation, Translation, and Interpretation For My Brothers of MuscleChemistry Nation!

Y.T. Presser

By definition, the plasma concentration of a drug is halved after one elimination half-life. Therefore, in each succeeding half-life, less drug is eliminated. After one half-life the amount of drug remaining in the body is 50% after two half-lives 25%, etc. After 4 half-lives the amount of drug (6.25%) is considered to be negligible regarding its therapeutic effects.

The half-life of a drug depends on its clearance and volume of distribution. The elimination half-life is considered to be independent of the amount of drug in the body.

Clinical implications

Half-life determines the length of the drug effect.

It also indicates whether accumulation of the drug will occur under a multiple dosage regimen and it is essential to decide on the appropriate dosing interval.

Related termsElimination rate constant (λ): Fractional rate of drug removal from the body. This rate is constant in first-order kinetics and is independent of drug concentration in the body. λ is the slope of the plasma concentration-time line (on a logarithmic y scale).

Apparent half-life (t1/2):

In some cases, such as for controlled-release preparations, the rate of decline of the drug plasma concentration is not due to elimination alone. Other factors such as absorption rate or distribution rate influence plasma concentration decay.

In such conditions, the observed half-life is called apparent half-life.

Assessment

Vd = volume of distribution
CL = clearance
λ = elimination rate constant = CL/Vd

So no one has questions? Everyone Understands the half life of Tamoxifen aka Nolvadex is 5 days, and gets why we take it daily at 40mg daily to start with.

Shit, i didnt understand when i first seen the half life of nolvadex was 5 days lmao. You guys must be way smarter than ole pressy poo (thats me Presser) lol

Hi!

I would like to run my first cycle, and I am a bit unsure on what to do. There is lots of conflicting info online to be found, and my thinking is better safe than sorry. So before I even put my fingers on it, I would appreciate your feedback. So here it is:

[TABLE="width: 419"]
<colgroup><col><col><col><col><col></colgroup><tbody>[TR]
[TD]Week[/TD]
[TD]Dianabol[/TD]
[TD]TestE[/TD]
[TD]Nolva[/TD]
[TD]Clomid[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]20 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]20 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]20 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Pause[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]40 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]75 mg/day[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]20mg/day[/TD]
[TD]50 mg/day[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]20mg/day[/TD]
[TD]50 mg/day[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]20mg/day[/TD]
[TD]50 mg/day
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

I will have Aromasin handy to take in case I feel funny nipples. Aromasin has a better pharmacological profile than Arimidex, so I prefer that. Please could you suggest how and when to use HCG in such a cycle, and generally give me your impressions on the cycle itself?

Thanks a lot!!

chemist_78 said:

Hi!

I would like to run my first cycle, and I am a bit unsure on what to do. There is lots of conflicting info online to be found, and my thinking is better safe than sorry. So before I even put my fingers on it, I would appreciate your feedback. So here it is:

[TABLE="width: 419"]
<colgroup><col><col><col><col><col></colgroup><tbody>[TR]
[TD]Week[/TD]
[TD]Dianabol[/TD]
[TD]TestE[/TD]
[TD]Nolva[/TD]
[TD]Clomid[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]20 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]20 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]20 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]20 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD="colspan: 4"]Pause[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]40 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]75 mg/day[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]20mg/day[/TD]
[TD]50 mg/day[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]20mg/day[/TD]
[TD]50 mg/day[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]20mg/day[/TD]
[TD]50 mg/day
[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

I will have Aromasin handy to take in case I feel funny nipples. Aromasin has a better pharmacological profile than Arimidex, so I prefer that. Please could you suggest how and when to use HCG in such a cycle, and generally give me your impressions on the cycle itself?

Thanks a lot!!

Click to expand...

U may wanna put your dbol at 40 a day 1-4
Test 500 good for first
U will need an ai or small dose of Nolva during cycle
On pct do Nolva 40 week 1-2
And 20 3-4
Clomid as high as u can handle 1-2
About 100mg
Then 50 week 3-4




Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Ok u have Aromasin. Run it about eod. I will be honest I never used Aromasin. But someone will chim in soon.
Hcg I never used but u wanna use it one to two times a week but not a couple weeks before pct.
There is a sticky on here on hcg I will see if I can bump it for u

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Hcg is already been bumped

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

I am sorry lol. I thought this was thread. Your cycle looks good I would adjust pct as stated the read above is hcg protocol and I only have used letro as ai.
Aromasin alot of guys run 12.5 eod maybe start with half of that. U would get better response if u started a thread

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

MuscleMechanic, thanks a lot for your comments! Much appreciated! So anyways:

1. I agree with you: Aromasin is a suicidal AI, and since it takes time (typically up to 3 days) for your cells to synthesize new enzyme, despite its short t(1/2) 25mg EOD should actually work.
2. True, there are more posts on HCG, but they also offer different protocols for HGC, so building on a previous post, and if I get your suggestions right I should change my protocol as follows:

[TABLE="width: 622"]
<colgroup><col><col><col><col><col><col><col></colgroup><tbody>[TR]
[TD]Week[/TD]
[TD]Dianabol[/TD]
[TD]TestE[/TD]
[TD]Nolva[/TD]
[TD]Clomid[/TD]
[TD]Aromasin[/TD]
[TD]HCG[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]40 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]40 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]40 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]40 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]500 mg/week[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]----[/TD]
[TD]----[/TD]
[TD]----[/TD]
[TD]----[/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]----[/TD]
[TD]----[/TD]
[TD]----[/TD]
[TD]----[/TD]
[TD]25mg EOD[/TD]
[TD]500 iu/week[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]40 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]100 mg/day[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]40 mg/day[/TD]
[TD]100 mg/day[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]20mg/day[/TD]
[TD]50 mg/day[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD]20mg/day[/TD]
[TD]50 mg/day[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
How does it look to you now? Any more comments/suggestions?

Again thanks a lot for taking the time to review!

Sorry, I had missed your last answer before I replied to your post! :-D
However I was mainly unsure on what to do with HCG, this is why I did not start a thread, as I had the feeling there was some specific knowledge here on how to run the protocol.
OK got your suggestion on Aromasin. I know most people will run letrozole or anastrozole, I am just afraid of the effects on plasma lipids on the one hand, and on the other on oestrogen rebound (from aromatase sudden activation after cutting the AI). But I recognise there is merit to your approach! So again many thanks. Obviously any suggestion on how to optimise before starting is welcome and appreciated.

chemist_78 said:

Sorry, I had missed your last answer before I replied to your post! :-D
However I was mainly unsure on what to do with HCG, this is why I did not start a thread, as I had the feeling there was some specific knowledge here on how to run the protocol.
OK got your suggestion on Aromasin. I know most people will run letrozole or anastrozole, I am just afraid of the effects on plasma lipids on the one hand, and on the other on oestrogen rebound (from aromatase sudden activation after cutting the AI). But I recognise there is merit to your approach! So again many thanks. Obviously any suggestion on how to optimise before starting is welcome and appreciated.

Click to expand...

I have used letro for years. My lipids always been good. Aromasin affects lipids the same and do does adex. They are compared mg to mg and total ability to knock estro down.
Having estro lower is what causes lipids to be bad or too bad.
They all the same some easy to find sweet spot than others. The trick is just enough but not too much so u may wanna start Aromasin lower.
It only should be upped if necessary.
Hcg do not run last 2 weeks while letting ester clear. U want Lh and FH signals until suppressed during pct which hcg does

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Muscle mechanic said:

I have used letro for years. My lipids always been good. Aromasin affects lipids the same and do does adex. They are compared mg to mg and total ability to knock estro down.
Having estro lower is what causes lipids to be bad or too bad.
They all the same some easy to find sweet spot than others. The trick is just enough but not too much so u may wanna start Aromasin lower.
It only should be upped if necessary.
Hcg do not run last 2 weeks while letting ester clear. U want Lh and FH signals until suppressed during pct which hcg does

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Got it thanks a lot!!

My auto spell been acting up. Hcg will suppress FH & LH signals and u do not want that going into pct. So hcg should be stopped 2 weeks before pct.
I will look for a good protocol for u. I will be honest I never have used hcg.
Hcg can cause estro that even an ai can't control.
If it were me I would consider using it risky.
If u only doing a cycle I believe u will be fine without but I am pretty sure that 500 a week or twice a week maybe 250 twice that is what I need to confirm.
I will ask someone experiences with hcg or ask them to chime in. By this afternoon u will have your answer.
On AI use its not that some or worse on lipids than others, it's that the lower u put your estro on any with be bad for lipids.
Letro has ability to lower it the most, then adex, then Aromasin.
Aromasin only differs by suicide completely deactivating aromatase enzymes bound to.
Other two(adex letro), the enzymes they bound to can become active again if half life of adex or letro runs too low before those enzyme are metabolized. After aromatasing steroids are discontinued for all ai's the result will be same except timing to stop other two should be enough to enzymes bound to, to be metabolized. We talking days.
Or with other two they sound be dosed often enough but not to high of dose too often.
Aromasin easier to adjust without crashing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

HCG Question

I'm one week into my first ever cycle. I read a ton of stuff before landing on what I felt was a good, safe first cycle, but I still have a question about HCG.

Weeks:

1-12 500mg / Test C / Once per week
250IU / HCG / E3D
14-17 50mg / Clomid Daily
14-15 40mg / Nolva Daily
16-17 20mg / Nolva Daily

I have not started the HCG yet. Are you saying I shouldn't start it until weeks 9-12?

wildfirestopper said:

I'm one week into my first ever cycle. I read a ton of stuff before landing on what I felt was a good, safe first cycle, but I still have a question about HCG.

Weeks:

1-12 500mg / Test C / Once per week
250IU / HCG / E3D
14-17 50mg / Clomid Daily
14-15 40mg / Nolva Daily
16-17 20mg / Nolva Daily

I have not started the HCG yet. Are you saying I shouldn't start it until weeks 9-12?

Click to expand...

I am not a hcg pro. Lol!
I never used it but I have read enough.
U are on test c or e u wanna first use it 2x per week.
Ex 250 Monday 250 Thursday
It will take a bit to have shut down on long esters so u wanna use it at that point when shit down occurs.
Use it 250 iu 2x a week
Use it only to keep boys working.
Then don't use 2-3 weeks before pct.
Good luck brother. Hitting sack! It's late

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Muscle mechanic said:

I am not a hcg pro. Lol!
I never used it but I have read enough.
U are on test c or e u wanna first use it 2x per week.
Ex 250 Monday 250 Thursday
It will take a bit to have shut down on long esters so u wanna use it at that point when shit down occurs.
Use it 250 iu 2x a week
Use it only to keep boys working.
Then don't use 2-3 weeks before pct.
Good luck brother. Hitting sack! It's late

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Use your test c or e 2x wk.
Not once peaks and Valleys from unstable levels will create estro
And hcg use 2x week as well around 6 weeks u can use and stop 2-3 weeks before pct.
That is what I believe is best protocol with creating extra estro from testosterone highs and lows especially with hcg
And without causing suppression going into pct or during.
Hcg is a false suppressive negative feedback creating signal so pct to use will make u think u good but it will be false kind of like doing test in pct.
One is given testosterone balls don't have to make so they stop and other is false signal to make balls work that is suppressive.
Nolva and clomid won't do this by hcg will so don't use it in pct or before 3 weeks!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

Can anyone help me with the Nolvadex, Clomide and HCG. And how to use it and should I use it?
Do I need AI stuf like Arimidex or Aromasine for this cycle?
I heard if I will have problem with gyno during cycle to take 10-20mg of Nolva to reduce estrogen?
I read alot and a lot of people say that HCG is not needed for this kind of a cycle, but to take Nolva and Clomide 2 weeks after cycle to bring LH and FSH(40/40/20/20 and 100/100/50/50).
And then I will take Maca powder,Tribulus, DAA and Zinc. To bring up my natural test to max.

I will use Test E. 1cc/250mg E5D (1-10 weeks) and Turinabol 40mg ED(1-4 weeks)

Q: Is this your first cycle?
A: Yes, it is.
Q: Are you aware of the stuff that can go wrong?
A: Yes I am and I want to prevent them.

Thx alot.
Cheers