Obama or Romney. Who are you voting for?

[Presser]

ok im 22 minutes in and im done with the video,lol, same old shit, same old cry, and im not bashing the guy i like Ron Paul, but no one will ever do shit until the masses are in the street rioting,lol, and by then it will have been too late!

 

[Jpotch]

I disagree with this, because this is to say "education" is the key to success...which in no way is accurate. It certainly is a key that can open certain doors, but in no way resembles financial success.

I will use myself as an example...I went to college on a full scholarship the first 2 years..Half academic half athletic. Id say I worked hard. I completed my degree .5 a year early with a 4.0. I then obtained a Masters Degree. I had a job a week after graduating. I got laid off. Got another job, worked my ass off, got promoted to Director, in charge of 30+ staff, 2 agencies, and a 5 million dollar budget on call 24/7. Guess what my pay was? 60K at the top. The State budget crashed a few years ago, and guess what I got laid off again. My boss begged me to take another job with a program he was working for, but the pay would be 35K with all my experience and hard work...It took me 6 months to find a job, with Sparkling recommendations and 10 years in my field. The jobs simply just did not exist, the ones that did were full. And I had to take a pay cut. Guess I wasn't ambitious or educated enough according to you???

Meanwhile I have a friend. Did not graduate HS. Handed a company from his family. Works maybe 20 hours per week, tells other people what to do, and his company makes a million dollars per year. He has no education and no work ethic, but he had opportunity he walked into.

Another example I have a relative who works in a factory 70 hours per week, 7 days per week. He has a HS degree, he makes $9 dollars per hour and kills himself just to pay rent and electric, no spending money. Hes very intelligent, he has applied for Dozens of better paying jobs, no ones hiring, he keeps trying.

I have friends with a HS degree who work in trades who make double what I do. I guess they just worked harder then someone like myself??

Now 23 million "Reported" people are Unemployed in the United States, Id be willing to be the rate is millions higher if it were calculated correctly. Regardless of race, and work ethic, the markets are saturated for good jobs. To believe that 23 million people simply did not "work hard" enough or have enough ambition is utter stupidity. Do you think that the majority of those people did not work themselves to the bone or have "educations" when they were let go.

Can you not clearly see, we are in economic crisis on the brink of economic collapse, the corporations and richer are the only ones getting richer and richer, and you simply cannot get blood from a stone.

And sure there are lazy slobs everywhere. I'm sure out of those 23 million+ there are people who really do not want to work and have no ambition like you are saying, and those who abuse the system, welfare, food stamps, etc...It will always happen.

I am also a Personal Trainer. I work very hard and could be considered an expert after this many years into what I have been doing and my experience. Companies like Planet Fitness and other major corporations take my clients because of cost. I cannot compete privately with someone who charges $20 dollars per hour and pays their PT's who suck most of the time. But yet I cannot make what I deserve in an economy like this. Maybe I can go work for them and collect 12 dollars per hour?? Guess I am just too lazy, not ambitious and uneducated. Maybe if I was a minority it would be handed to me on a silver platter? I think not :greedy:

I'll address your points one at a time. First off here are the stats from the census bureau:
High school drop outs: $18,734
High school graduates: $27,915
College grads (with a bachelor’s degree): $51,206
Advanced degree holders: $74,602
That means, over the course or working 40 years, someone with a high school diploma will make $1,116,600 while someone with a bachelor’s degree will make $2,048,204

So overall when you poll the entire nation. Yes education does directly correlate with financial success. Of course we all can come up with one or two instances that contradict these stats, but to say there is no direct correlation is completely false.



Secondly my point on having ambition was regarding funding for college, not keeping and maintaining your job in this tough economy. I think you misunderstood my post.

Third this friend of yours with "no work ethic" walked into a unique situation that i'm sure less than 2% of the nation have. But you have to consider the fact that he walked into a company built on his ancestor's great work ethic and ambition.

Fourth, the majority of unemployed Americans are not those who have lost jobs they once had. Do your research.. heres the link to the table from the US Labor and Statistics Bureau Table A-4. Employment status of the civilian population 25 years and over by educational attainment
for those of you who don't want to look it up, i'll summarize in a bit. You ask "do i think that the majority of those people didnt work their ass off or have educations??
well here it is in black and white....

Unemployment Rates by level of Education:

Less than a HS diploma: 12.2%
HS diploma : 8.4%
Associates degree : 6.9%
BS degree: : 3.8%

So the answer to your question is yes. I do think the majority of the unemployed are also uneducated. And frankly speaking, so does the US Bureau of Labor.

Lastly, do i think you would have a better job to you handed on a silver platter if you were a minority?? No i do not, i never posted about race and the job market, only about education and the cost of it... but there is no question your education would have been less expensive if you were a minority.

 

[Presser]

Ok in times like this, when things get heated, this is what we all need! A good old "Obama Ecstacy Pill" so we can all chill out and Love one another, and do some dancing ofcourse, a little glow stick action...whatever lol

 

[Jpotch]

lol, i like it! giving out my first 'like'.

As Wesley said, no disrespect intended here to anyone. We all have opinions and feel strongly about them. Its part of being American. Not many people across the globe can "sound off" they way we do. We should all be grateful for that

 

[Presser]

damn your stingy with those LIKES i feel blessed lmao

 

[Jpotch]

I know...They mean a lot to me :chinese:

 

[WesleyInman]

Jpotch you do have some logic behind your views, I can completely appreciate it!! Actually if anything I respect you and the others with slightly different views to voice them, makes all of us consider other options and opinions

Those are real Xtacy pills??!! LOL@ glow sticks

 

[Mighty49er]

Hey fellas....looks like I missed all the debate. Jpotch let me go back to a question that you asked about my post; what can Congress do, specifically, for minorities on the subject of jobs? Answer: Nothing. When it comes to jobs, a strong economy helps EVERYONE, from the college drop out to the post degree geek. Take a look at the line after the one that you highlighted from my post. I referred that "no one(minorities) is asking for any special treatment."

The debate is more about "The Haves and the Have Nots" than anything. It is a class issue. Regardless of how much the tax rate rises on the rich, they will never pay more than the working Joe in taxes. Believe that. Ask anyone who is wealthy. The reasoning behind what Im saying is simple: they can afford tax attorneys to set up their corporations to minimize their tax liability. Its as easy as that. As a business owner, I cut myself a $12,000 check for my yearly salary and used my corporation to pay for anything and everything that I need. All perfectly legal and easily documented. Payroll taxes are the highest tax out there therefore any good business owner would keep salaries low and business expeditures high to offset your tax liability. I dont have "Romney" money but there are always ways to legally reduce your tax rate. The question that is all presented to us is, do you know how to do it??? Those with $ do and those without do their 1040 EZ and pay what they think they should pay.

Millionaires flourished under Reagan and Clinton when the top tax rates were 45% and 39.6% respectfully. Ive had to reinvent my company several times to survive this economy but thats what I got to do. Politicians have the poor and middle class fighting each other over the stupidest things when we are more alike than different. Black or white. There is a certain value system placed on households aspiring to move up. Ive seen it in the "hoods" of D.C. where I went to H.S. to the families and friends of business partners.

I grew up like u JPotch. Moms and Pops were teachers and raised 7 kids on a very modest income. From the age of 13, if we wanted more than the regular underwear and socks for school, we had to work for it. They taught us a work ethic that would last forever. Out of the 7 of us, there are 7 degrees and 4 masters degrees.

Education is the key. If you arm yourself with enough education and combine it with wisdom, then you will succeed. You have to be willing to fail and bounce back. Our nations economy is changing. A bachlors degree is has to be baseline because the future of the US is high paying technological jobs. The day when u could rest in a job for 50 years and retire is long gone. You gotta anticipate where the money is going and head there before everyone else does. The people that fail are looking too shallow.

 

[The Dude]

This thread could very easily lay to rest the stereotype that bodybuilders are ignorant. Any idiot can have an opinion, but having substance and facts to support your opinion puts you in the real minority in this country. I'm very impressed with all of the posts in this thread

 

[Mighty49er]

Well said Dude. The Love of Country compels us to talk, discuss, debate and try to win over the other side. People are still dying to have a small taste of what we have here. People have spilled blood so that I can have a somewhat serious talk (even though its through a forum) about the direction of our union. Some things we can agree to disagree on and thats ok. Its the variety of ideas that propels us as the greatest nation on earth.

E Pluribus Unum = Out of many - one.

 

[Presser]

well said fellas

 

[WesleyInman]

Did anyone notice that 86% of the people who voted on this thread voted for Romney!!!! hahahahahaha...this thing was more rigged then when Bush was elected!!! JK, but really I wonder why the result came out to be as such??

And for the record I did not vote, I didn't like either of them

 

[Presser]

Rule #1 = ya cant bitch if ya dont vote,lol

 

[WesleyInman]

Ok so Jesse Ventura said what I was trying to say, only much better..thoughts?? comments??

For all of you who decided that any employee who stands up for their rights should just look for a better job. Let me ask you, have you looked around the country lately? This country is operating on a service based economy. The giant corporations have moved into most communities and forced privately owned business out of business through graft and spending. Just where is this employee supposed to get a new job that pays a living wage when all the jobs available to them are from the same group of corporations? Oh, I guess they should go to school and learn a trade that will not only put them into deep financial debt but the likelihood of that trade being around after they graduate is slim given the trends of outsourcing and automation. Not everyone gets the high paying six figure job with benefits however that doesn't mean the low income worker should be treated like a second class citizen because they didn't get the same breaks you did. The American dream does not exist. Corporate fascism killed it. The story of the kid who started out flipping burgers and is now a millionaire is a myth. The carrot that is dangled in front of everyone working a shitty job with no future. Welcome to the new corporate sponsored american dream: Indentured Servitude.

 

[The Dude]

Ok so Jesse Ventura said what I was trying to say, only much better..thoughts?? comments??

For all of you who decided that any employee who stands up for their rights should just look for a better job. Let me ask you, have you looked around the country lately? This country is operating on a service based economy. The giant corporations have moved into most communities and forced privately owned business out of business through graft and spending. Just where is this employee supposed to get a new job that pays a living wage when all the jobs available to them are from the same group of corporations? Oh, I guess they should go to school and learn a trade that will not only put them into deep financial debt but the likelihood of that trade being around after they graduate is slim given the trends of outsourcing and automation. Not everyone gets the high paying six figure job with benefits however that doesn't mean the low income worker should be treated like a second class citizen because they didn't get the same breaks you did. The American dream does not exist. Corporate fascism killed it. The story of the kid who started out flipping burgers and is now a millionaire is a myth. The carrot that is dangled in front of everyone working a shitty job with no future. Welcome to the new corporate sponsored american dream: Indentured Servitude.

Agreed, but I believe your stance is short sighted. How did publicly owned corporations get to this point? With the dollars of the American consumer. Yes it is somewhat pointless to say "look what you did", but as Santayana said "those who can not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it".
I will be the first to admit that my beliefs do not help anyone in the current state of our country, but it is my belief that we are long past the point of no return. People chose the cheap, easy and irresponsible way of life for far too long. We are now reaping what we sow. I believe that there are hard working people that are now condemned to horrible work conditions and financial hardships, but I see people continue to make the choices that put us here day after day. Obama was re elected... Need I say more?

 

[Presser]

This thread just wont die! lol

 

[WesleyInman]

LOL @ Presser, nope it won't didn't you start it though?? Shame on you!! hahaha just kidding

Dude said, "Yes it is somewhat pointless to say "look what you did", but as Santayana said "those who can not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it".
I will be the first to admit that my beliefs do not help anyone in the current state of our country, but it is my belief that we are long past the point of no return. People chose the cheap, easy and irresponsible way of life for far too long. We are now reaping what we sow. I believe that there are hard working people that are now condemned to horrible work conditions and financial hardships, but I see people continue to make the choices that put us here day after day.

Outstanding. This is perfect, believe it or not, I agree with you completely. I know it is our fault. I am just as guilty of sitting back and doing nothing...I don't agree with the current state of affairs at all, but I am not sure how to change it...and I don't have a solution....What i do know is that people will only tolerate so much. If things ever get to the point that is predicted, it is well known it will cause an uprising and people will then react, only because at that point, they have no choice. Right now, a few choices still exist????