Testosterone replacement therapy and thyroid interaction: Have you had any problems?

[BigZ]

I have been having some health symptoms for a few years now. Most have been pretty minor such as itchy dry skin, insomnia, depression, fatigue, and poor nutrient absorption to name a few. I've noticed that these symptoms have been progressively been becoming worse. After searching about the symptoms, the results that come up keep pointing to me being hypothyroid. I keep wondering how this could be because I've had thyroid tests in the past with them coming up "normal." Did some more searching, and it seems that TRT or using AAS in general doesn't just stop your testosterone production, it also affects thyroid signaling through the same feedback loop. The testes produce a hormone called thyroid releasing hormone (TRH), and when you take AAS or go on TRT (especially long term), production of this hormone is reduced. A good doc upon giving someone TRT will also give some adjustment to thyroid--or so I've read.

How many of you knew this? It doesn't seem to be a part of the regular information about TRT out there.

I went to my doc with all these clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism, but since my TSH (measured 3.3) is still in the "normal" range, he will not treat me. So you can still have normal production of TSH and T4, still have hypothyroid symptoms, but TSH and T4 are the only tests most regular doctors will perform (my PCP included). The information I've found says that you must also measure T3 and Reverse-T3 (and the resulting ratio between them). The reason for this is because the body starts to convert T4 into Reverse-T3 instead of T3. If the ratio between T3 and Reverse-T3 gets off you have problems. T3 should be around 20 times higher than Reverse-T3. Too much Reverse-T3 clogs the receptors so they can't receive normal T3, thus the hypothyroid symptoms. My doc actually told me that he would get reviewed if he tested me for T3 and that they simply don't measure it. He couldn't tell me why, but I was unable to persuade him so I ordered my own tests through MyMedlab. I'll be getting my results in about another day, and if they are what I suspect they are, I should be able to use the results to tell my doc that I need T3. If he still won't, I'll find another doc who will or I will probably get it on my own.

Those of you who cycle, have you normally included T3 in your cycle? If so, did you know your reason for doing so?

 

[BigZ]

No one?

Take a look at this article from the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/jcem.76.4.8473383?journalCode=jcem

Abstract

Self-administration of very high doses of androgenic anabolic steroids is common use in power athletes because of their favorable effect on performance. Since androgenic steroids decrease serum T4-binding globulin (TBG) concentrations dramatically, we were interested in the effects of this procedure on thyroid function: we performed TRH tests (200 micrograms Relefact, i.v.), with blood withdrawal before and for 180 min after injection, for determination, using RIA kits, of serum concentrations of total and free T4, total T3, TSH, and TBG in 13 young (20-29 yr old) male body builders with clinically normal thyroid glands, who were all in the same state of training. Five of these athletes admitted taking androgenic anabolic steroids at an average total dose of 1.2 g/week for at least 6 weeks before the tests. TBG, total T4, and total T3 were significantly (P < 0.001) decreased, whereas basal TSH and free T4 were not significantly different from the values of the other 8 without androgenic steroids. The maximum TSH increase after TRH administration (mean +/- SE, 16 -/+ 6 vs. 9 -/+ 4 mU/L; P < 0.05) was relatively increased, whereas the T3 response to TRH (0.61 -/+ 0.10 vs. 1.13 -/+ 0.13 nmol/L; P < 0.05) was relatively decreased in the group receiving androgens. The 5 patients taking androgens had significantly greater weight (114 vs. 90 kg; P < 0.01) and higher total cholesterol levels (6.3 -/+ 1.3 vs. 3.8 -/+ 0.3 mmol/L; P < 0.05) together with very low high density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (0.20 -/+ 0.03 vs. 1.03 -/+ 0.10; P < 0.001) than the controls. PRL levels were normal and similar in both groups. We conclude from our results that high dose androgenic anabolic steroid administration leads to a relative impairment (within the normal range) of thyroid function. Whether this is due to a direct thyroid hormone release (or synthesis?)-blocking effect of these steroids needs further investigation.

 

[Jozifp103]

Do you use HCG with your trt? I've been reading that HCG not only keeps your testicles producing testosterone, but other necessary hormones as well, including hormones that keep your thyroid functioning properly.

 

[BigZ]

Not normally. I've asked countless times about using HCG to keep the other hormones going, but my doc always tells me no, that I don't need it.

 

[Jozifp103]

Not normally. I've asked countless times about using HCG to keep the other hormones going, but my doc always tells me no, that I don't need it.

Well from my research, hcg also keeps other things in check besides testicular function. HCG has shown cross-reactivity to the TSH receptor. So in a way it mimics TSH and helps regulate thyroid function.

 

[Presser]

HMMM, this is EXTREMELY INTERESTING TO ME! And I never used T3 in my life, and I have cycled Testosterone Therapeutically for Years and Years on end!

BigZ, can you see or feel in any significant way that this is happening and that you need the t3 for sure? I know you listed a few with depression and fatigue and Hnestly i don't think they are MINOR symptoms at all, especially the fatigue part! I wonder if t3 would help with my fatigue, as I feel tired all the fucking time, but then again i don't sleep much lol.

Anyhow, interesting read for sure and why are doctors so damn illiterate

 

[BigZ]

I agree, the symptoms aren't minor. They have been so gradual over the years that I didn't really notice it until they became really bad about 3-4 years ago, and they still continue to get worse. I just never realized what the source of the problems was. It all makes a lot of sense now. I had a prescription for T3 4 years ago from the really good doc that I had, but I never really understood why he gave it to me. I was wary of taking it because I had heard it has the potential to burn away muscle besides fat so I never really took it, BUT I kept the pills. After I found out all this, I dug them out and I took one that night before going to bed. I felt MUCH better the next day, had energy throughout the day, and I slept better that night. To make sure I wasn't getting a placebo effect, I didn't take it again. Sure enough, the next day I was so tired and drained, I knew right away it was real.