I need a lil training advice

footballcat

Hardly a Newbie
Well right now im getting a little botherd. My legs are staying the same, which im fine with that, but i can not get my upper body to grow at all. No matter what i do, right now im natural, till this summer cycle. But i just cant get my chest and arms to grow at all. My arms are 2" smaller then my calfs. Im prob just worring, but can someone give me a good, idea for a good upper body work out. Should i work my upperbody twice a week?
 
Cat if your going for size, I recommend heavy weights, low reps , intense training, at 9 to 12 sets per body part. When I was your age I worked out all the time doing eveybody part twice a week. I never gained in size or strength. List your workouts. Also how's your diet?
 
I would suggest 1 muscle a day at 12 sets,6-8 reps, heavy weights. You dont need more than that or you will be overtraining. You also need to make shure you stimulate the muscle your working. EX. when you do dumbbell bench make shure you focus on working your pecs, breathe correctly, full movement of the muscle, and get a tight squeeze. If done correctly youll feel the difference. oh and dont take more than a min. break between sets. You wanna make shure youre working the muscle while its full of blood, take to long a break and you will be cheating yourself.
 
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first off all whats your diet like?? you might be eating like a bird.. lifting heavy weight isnt gonna cut it thats just part of the puzzle need all the pieces man write back with your diet so we can take a look.. i konw wanted training advice but people to often tend to think its there training whe i would say 80% of the time its there eating
 
Might want to try reading some training ideas like this:

I've done both BB and powerlifting over the years and as a whole powerlifters train so much smarter than BB's. Why? progress is simple to measure if your a powerlifter, you care about one thing and one thing only, more weight on the bar. BB's are mostly confused and worry about getting a good pump and hitting the muscle from all angles to assure complete development. They overtrain so badly most rarely increase their poundages and look the same year after year. Puff, WTF do you care if you only do 2 sets for your chest as long as every week your getting stronger. Yeah, I get it, it's better to do 16 sets and never improve because you can't recover from your workouts. Again, Think about this for a minute. If ALL you did was do squats, stiff legged deadlifts, bench (or dips) weighted pullups, and military or dumbell presses, BUT, since you ALWAYS recovered on this simple schedule and were able to add weight or reps every workout until you squatted 400 for 20, stiff legged 350 for 15, benched 315 for 12, did pullups with 100 lbs around your waist, and did dumbell presses with 3/4 bodyweight for 8 reps, how big would you be compared to where you are now? That is EXACTLY how many people with less then average genetics need to train to get big. It's also something they usually will never attempt because they are clueless about what a HUGE role recovery plays and how little training is actually needed to stimulate growth while still allowing recover to occur.

Iron Addict

I just started this week and its pretty tough. Also how many grams protein you eating? calories?
 
Ok diet is real good, at least 350g of protein. Im eating about 4-7 meals a day.

I think i am over training, i do chest and tris the same day on monday, but then thursday i will do them again. I am getting weaker, i can count some of that to the 30lbs ive lost. But i am weaker then i was in the fall, which is pissing me off. I think ill try the one body part a day thing, like
chest mon
tri tue
legs wed
shoulders thur
lats fri
and take one day off, abs every other day
 
Cat you won't be giving your tri's rest and time to grow doing them the next day.
Mon- Chest
Tues-Back
Wed- off
Thurs-bi's tri's
fri-shoulders
sat-legs
sun-off

or something similar, don't do two pushes back to back.
 
If that doesn't work I'm doing a workout based on this info and I like it so far. Here is some cut & paste info on it. Its a good read, I'm thinking about paying the cash and getting some personal training info from him actually seems to benefit a lot of people:

ok first I have to go over some principles I believe in first regarding training and Ill go to work and hit more on the training later on.
a) I believe he who makes the greatest strength gains (in a controlled fashion)as a bodybuilder, makes the greatest muscle gains--note: i said strength gains--everyone knows someone naturally strong who can bench 400 yet isnt that big. Going from a beginning 375 bench to 400 isnt that great of a strength gain and wont result in much of a muscle gain. But if i show you someone who went from 150 to 400 on a benchpress, that guy will have about 2.5 inches more of muscle thickness on his pecs. That is an incredible strength gain and will equal out into an incredible muscle gain

b) I havent seen a guy who can squat 500 for 20 reps, bench press 500 for 15 and deadlift 500 for 15 who was small yet ---but I have seen alot and i mean alot of people in the gym and on these forums that are a buck 65 or two and change--shouting that you dont have to lift heavy to get big. (in an extremely rare case you will see a naturally strong powerlifter who has to curb calories to stay in a weight class and that is the reason he doesnt get bigger)

c)training is all about adaption--in simple terms you lift a weight and your muscle has one of 2 choices--either tear completely under the load (which is incredibly rare and what we dont want)or the muscle lifts the weight and protects itself by remodeling and getting bigger to protect itself against the load (next time). If the weight gets heavier--the muscle has to again remodel and get bigger again to handle it. You can superset, superslow, giant set, pre exhaust all day long but the infinite adaption is load---meaning heavier and heavier weights is the only infinite thing you can do in your training. Intensity is finite. Volume is finite (or infinite if you want to do 9000 sets per bodypart)...everything else is finite. The Load is infinite and heavier and heavier weights used(I DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT SOME BUCK 58 POUND GURU SAYS)will make the biggest bodybuilder. (add high protein, glutamine and drugs to the mix and you have one large person)

d) The largest pro bodybuilders in the last 10 years (outside of Paul Dillett who is a genetic alien and I think could grow off of mowing lawns) are also the very strongest-(kovacs, prince, coleman, yates, francois, nasser (although he trains lighter now) For anyone who argues that they have seen so and so bodybuilder and he trains light---well I will bet you he isnt gaining rapid size anymore and that his greatest size increases were when he was going for his pro card and he was training shit heavy. He will convince himself and others that he is "making the best gains of his career" though cuz noone likes to think what they are presently doing isnt working and they are running in place do they.... Sadly heavy drug use can make up for alot of training fallacies.

e) Please think of the times when you make the best size gains---the first time is in the first 2 years of lifting WHEN YOU MAKE YOUR BEST STRENGTH GAINS TOO! then things start to slow down. Whats the next time? You start using steroids and boom what happens? YOUR TRAINING WEIGHTS GO FLYING UP. And you get dramatically bigger-(im taking into effect protein assimilation, recovery etc also). The greatest strength gains you make will result in also the most rapid size gains. (if your taking in the protein requirements of a 12 year old girl scout then you can discount yourself from the above group)
I beleive in Powerbuilding not bodybuilding--using techniques that build the most strength gains in the fastest time possible while using the most effective exercises for that person. I am positive I could take 2 twins--have one do his own thing training wise, but do the same drugs and nutrition as the twin I train......come back a year later and the twin I trained would have 25lbs more muscle
f)Ive seen powerlifters (who catch alot of guff from bodybuilders for being "fat") diet down and come in and destroy bodybuilders in bodybuilding shows time and time again. Over and over. Powerlifters and Powerbodybuilders are by far the thickest guys onstage when and if they decide to enter bodybuilding shows.
g) heavy is relative--it doesnt mean 3 reps --- it means as heavy as you can go on that exercise no matter if it is 5 reps or 50 reps. I personally like to do hack squats for 20 reps but I use about 6 plates on each side rock bottom--thats as heavy as I can go on that exercise for 20 reps. I could do sets of 6 and probaly use maybe 8 or 9 plates a side but my legs (and most people I train) grow best from heavy and 15-50 reps.
so now you guys know i believe in the heaviest training possible (safely)--ok i got to go to work--

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ok back to my training concepts--Ive stated how my whole goal is to continually get stronger on key exercises=getting continually bigger. I will state this, the method I am about to describe is what I have found that makes people grow at the absolutely fastest rate possible and why I am being inundated down in this area to train people. Its going to go against the grain but I'm making people grow about 2 and a half times as fast the normal rate so bear with me.

A typical workout for the masses is (lets use chest for an example) doing a bodypart once every 7 days (once a week)and sometimes even once every 9 days or more. This concept came to the front due to recovery reasoning and I agree with most typical workouts your going to need a great deal of recovery.

Heres the problem---lets say you train chest once a week for a year and you hypothetically gain 1/64 of an inch in pectoral thickness from each workout. At the end of the year you should be at 52/64 ( or 13/16 ). Almost an inch of thickness (pretty good).

To build muscle we are trying to lift at a high enough intensity and load to grow muscle but with enough recovery so the muscle remodels and grows. The problem is everyone is loading up on the volume end of training and its taking away from the recovery part of it.
You can train in a way so you can train chest 3 times every nine days and you will recover and grow faster than ever. If you train chest 3 times in 9 days you are now doing chest roughly 136 times a year! So instead of 52 growth phases you are now getting 136 growth phases a year. I personally would rather grow 136 times a year than 52. At a hypothetical 1/64th of an inch per workout you are now at 136/64 (or roughly 2.1 inches of thickness). So now your growing at roughly 2 and a half times as fast as normal people who are doing modern day workouts are. Most people train chest with 3 to 4 exercises and wait the 7-9 days to recover and that is one growth phase. I use the same 3 to 4 exercises but do chest 3 times during those 9 days and get 3 growth phases. Everyone knows a muscle either contracts or doesnt--you cannot isolate a certain part of it (you can get into positions that present better mechanical advantages though that put a focus on certain deep muscle fibers)--for example incline presses vs flat presses. One huge mistake beginning bodybuilders make is they have a "must" principle instilled in them. They feel they "must" do this exercise and that exercise and this many sets or they wont grow. GOOD GOD THIS IS VERY HARD TO EXPLAIN BY TYPING IT ALL OUT ON A MESSAGE BOARD

how I set bodybuilders workouts up is I have them pick either their 3 favorite exercises for each bodypart or better yet the exercises they feel will bring up their weaknessess the most. For me my chest exercises are high incline smythe machine press, hammer seated flat press and slight incline smythe press with hands very very wide----this is because I look at my physique and I feel my problem area is upper and outer pecs---that is my focus.

I set up the program like this
DAY ONE
CHEST
SHOULDERS
TRICEPS
BACK WIDTH
BACK THICKNESS

DAY TWO
BICEPS
FOREARMS
CALVES
HAMSTRINGS
QUADS

DAY THREE OFF

DAY FOUR-REPEAT CHEST DAY ONE AND SEQUENCE BUT WITH TOTAL DIFFERENT EXERCISES

DAY FIVE-REPEAT DAY TWO AND SEQUENCE WITH TOTAL DIFFERENT EXERCISES

DAY SIX OFF

DAY SEVEN-REPEAT DAY ONE AND SEQUENCE WITH TOTAL DIFFERENT EXERCISES THAN DAY ONE AND FOUR

DAY EIGHT --REPEAT DAY TWO AND SEQUENCE WITH TOTAL DIFFERENT EXERCISES THEN DAY TWO AND FIVE

Stay with me here--Your only doing one exercise per muscle group per day. Your doing your first favorite exercise for chest on day one--your doing your second favorite exercise for chest on day four and your third exercise for chest on day seven. Your doing the same exercises you would be doing anyway in a weeks time and training chest 3 times in that week(or nine days) with minimal sets so you can recover. You cannot do a 3-5 exercise chest workout and recover to train chest again 3 days later. Absolutely impossible!! You can come in and do 2-3 warmup sets up to your heaviest set and then do one working set (rest paused) all out balls to the wall on that exercise --recover and grow and be ready again 3 days later.

Example Day one
first exercise smythe incline presses (ill use the weights i use for example)
135 for warmup for 12--185 for 8 warmup--225 for 6-8 warmup-----then 375 for 8 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 2-4 reps to total absolute failure (then 12-15 deep breaths) 375 for 1-3 reps to absolute total failure (then a 20-30 second static hold) DONE!--thats it 375lbs for 8+4+3= 375 for 15 reps rest paused..... next week I go for 385 (again rest paused)-----directly after that rest pause set I go to extreme stretching flyes as described earlier in this post and thats it for chest and on to shoulders, triceps and back........the next day I come in to do chest would be day 4 and i would do hammer flat presses in the same rest paused manner (and then extreme stretching again)---the next day i come in to do chest is day seven and I would do my third favorite exercise rest paused and then the cycle repeats. Three chest workouts in nine days with low enough volume to recover in between workouts and high enough intensity and load to grow rapidly--my workouts last an hour--im doing one exercise for one all out balls to the wall rest pause set (i dont count warmups only the working set) ---so in simple terms I am using techniques with extreme high intensity(rest pause) which i feel make a persons strength go up as quickly as possible + low volume so i can (recover) as quickly as possible with as many growth phases (damage/remodel/recover)I can do in a years time --Before you disregard this because it is so utterly different, think it out ok ill hit more on this later...I have to go eat, im starving

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Doggcrapp: Actually some of you who know of me probaly know I was talking about this same kind of training back about 7-8 years ago...Just in case any of you were confused every bodypart is hit 3 times in 9 days and advanced techniques such as rest pause is used (if it can be used)....Some exercises like hack squats and some back rowing exercises dont allow themselves to rest pausing too well. A sample coupld of days for me would be the following (im not including warmup sets--just working sets)
Day 1
CHEST:smythe incline 375 x 15 reps rest pause (RP)and 20 second static rep at end
SHOULDERS front smythe press-330 x 13RP
TRICEPS-reverse grip bench 315 for 15-20 reps rest paused
Back width: rear pulldowns to back of head 300 x 18RP (20 second static at end)
Back thickness: deadlifts straight set of 12-20 reps (less weight than ronnie coleman thats for sure--anyone see those 805lb deadlifts for reps he does?)

Day 2
BICEPS- dumbell curls rest paused for 20 reps
FOREARMS--hammer curls rest paused for 15
CALVES -on hack squat straight set for 12 reps but with a 20 second negative phase
HAMSTRINGS-lying leg curl rest paused for 15-20 reps and then 20 second static at end
QUADS-hack squat straight set of 6 plates each side for 20 reps (of course after warming up)

DAY THREE IS OFF --Day four and five is same as day one with same concepts but different exercises (and again the same with days seven and eight)

every exercise is done with a controlled but explosive positive and a true 6-10 second negative phase. And the absolutely most important thing of any of this is I write down all weights and reps done from the working set on a notepad (and every time i go into the gym i have to continually look back and beat the previous times reps/weight or both)---If I cant or I dont beat it, no matter if I love doing the exercise or not, I have to change to a new exercise. Believe me this adds a grave seriousness, a clutch performance or imperiativeness to a workout. I have exercises I love to do and knowing I will lose them if I dont beat the previous stats sucks! But there is a method to this madness because when you get to that wall of sticking point of strength (AND YOU WILL, THERE IS NO WAY YOU CAN HACK SQUAT UP TO 50 PLATES A SIDE) that is when your muscle=strength gains will stop.....and you must turn to a different exercise and get strong on that one. And then someday you will peak out on that one too. You can always come back to that loved exercise in the future and youll start somewhat low and build up to a peak again--and trust me that peak will be far more than the previous one. Some exercises youll stay with and gain strength at for almost up to a year and some exercises youll be at the limit in 4 weeks and lose them but its all in the plan. I love reverse grip bench presses--knowing that I have to beat 315 for 17 reps rest paused or else I have to change to maybe dips next time puts a serious sense of urgency into workouts. I either have to beat it by doing something to the effect of 320 for 15 rest paused or if i stick with 315, I have to get at least 19 reps rest paused or so. If im feeling crappy or having an offday I might give myself a little leeway and allow myself another go at it next time around but thats it. The notepad is your intensity level, how badly you want to keep doing an exercise will be how hard you push to beat the previous. Looking at that piece of paper knowing what you have to do to beat it will bring out the best in you. Again its all in the plan to make you the strongest bodybuilder possible which will equal out into the biggest bodybuilder possible.
 
Lately its been the other way around for me. My upperbody is blowing up, but my lower body lagging behind. At least you got a solid foundation to work with. Just keep experimenting until you find the right combo of routines. Try upping your carbs. Also I like to train bi's with chest, and tri's with back. That way my arms aren't burned out, and I can really kill them.
 
good read. When i grew the best is when i went heavy and i was on. I exploded. Right now my legs are finally growing, but my chest is lacking, im trying to keep between 5-3 reps for each set nomore.
 
Training Doggsrapp's style will make you feel and look like your on gear even when your not. It was awesome for me, I loved every minute of it, I can't wait to add super supplements to it.
 
Armageddon said:
Training Doggsrapp's style will make you feel and look like your on gear even when your not. It was awesome for me, I loved every minute of it, I can't wait to add super supplements to it.

I'm lovin' it so far man I hope to blow up this year using this training, 500+g protein/day and of course "super-supplements" :D
 
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